Posts by Island Man

53

My Dad wants to study with me

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

so my parents continue to pester me about getting baptized.

the other day my dad told me that i was old enough to make a decision, and was wondering why i wasn't ready (assembly is in a few weeks) so i told him calmly that i have many doubts and if i were to get baptized it has to be 100 percent my idea.

he was a little annoyed by this, and now wants to study the "is there a creator that cares about you" book (which is complete bs) with me.

Island Man

Start a very calm and respectful conversation with your Dad along the lines of freedom of religion. Get him to tell you/agree that baptism is a choice that has to be made freely without any form of coercion or pressure. Maybe even mention the bad example of some people - of other religions - forcing their children into their religion against their will. Get the May 2009 Awake (hope I have the right issue date) that says persons should not be forced to join a religion and that persons should not be made to choose between their beliefs and their family.

After you have done all that very calmly and respectfully tell him that you have given the subject of baptism a lot of thought and come to the decision that you do not wish to get baptized, and ask him to please respect and accept your decision since he already stated that you're old enough to make a decision and he has already indicated (from the foregoing conversation) that he accepts you have the right to freedom of religion and should not face any form of coercion to be baptized or penalties for refusing to do so, because parents that truly respect their children's right to choose would not engage in such actions, and you have confidence that he's not such a parent - based on the foregoing conversation.

If he asks you why you don't want to get baptized, just very calmly tell him that you do not wish to discuss it as he may perceive what you have to say as attacking his religion and he will get upset. Tell him you respect his right to be a JW and you're not out to discourage him or destroy his faith so you rather keep your reasons to yourself so as not to upset him in any way. You only want him to respect your decision and your freedom of choice to not become a JW, just as you respect his right to be JW.

33

Which bible translation do you think is best and most acurate?

by NikL in

jw
friends

for those that still care to read the bible of course.

those that don't, please keep the snarky comments to yourselves :-).

i am assuming nwt is not very popular?.

Island Man

The best translation is the one that you make yourself after studying the dead languages that the bible was written in. Failing that, look for a translation that was done by a secular linguist, based purely on language principles.

The worst translations are ones made by religious organizations as they always try to inject their own theological beliefs into the translation; or at the very least, they let their theological preconceptions influence their choice of wording, often leading to the use of very obscure secondary meanings of words being employed instead of the normal meaning. The NWT is a perfect example of this.

39

THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) APRIL 2017.....Scare tactics

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower (study edition) april 2017 .

“you must pay your vows to jehovah.”—matt.

5:33.. * to all intents and purposes, he presented himself as one who was wholly dedicated to god.

Island Man

"When I bring up to still in friends about the worst case of abuse in the UK, Eunice Spry, who abused 4 children for 19 years, they say she was not a Jehovah,s Witness (like she was just pretending)..."

When they say that you can reply by saying that all the so-called Catholic priests found guilty of molesting children were not really Catholics but were just pretending; and the members of the Catholic hierarchy who participated in covering it up are also not real Catholics. All the sins of the Catholic church were committed by "false brothers" who weren't real Catholics.

When they use stupid, special pleading reasoning to excuse their sins and wickedness, use the same reasoning right back at them to excuse the sins and wickedness of "christendom" and "babylon the great" so they can see how stupid and hypocritical they are being.

27

OK who threw the stink bomb in here?

by Thisismein1972 in

come on a believer, everyone knows it was you so own up to it and teacher will not be cross!.

this is exactly what seems to be happening, a believer runs in drops the stink bomb and runs out again...only to pear around the door when he/she deems it safe to do so.

😅😅😅.

Island Man

I said I've been in the Truth my whole life but didn't research other religions beliefs until a couple weeks ago. The JW makes the most sense to me because of my understanding of the Bible.

The reason why JW beliefs make the most sense to you is, not necessarily because they're true, but because your brain has already been shaped and biased by JW interpretations of scripture and JW reasoning due to your being in "the Truth" your whole life. I suspect that you are simply incapable of making a truly objective and unbiased examination of other beliefs without judging them by your own JW thinking that is deeply ingrained in you. So ultimately you're engaging in a form of circular reasoning (or circular judgment) where you judge all religions based on JW reasoning with the result that, not surprisingly, the JWs end up seeming to you like the one that makes the most sense.

This is not unique to you or JWs, by the way. The same situation applies to persons brought up in other religions. Polytheistic religions like Hinduism never seems to make sense to deeply entrenched monotheists like Muslims, for example. The reason for this is not that monotheism is inherently more logical but only that the Muslim mind has been shaped to think of the divine as being necessarily monotheistic. But no Muslim or monotheist can give a logical argument for why there has to be only one God, without citing their own religious texts and thus exposing their bias of judging religions based on what they've been taught by their own religion, instead of truly looking at the matter in an objective, logical manner.

3

Are JWs as eager to accept voluntary disassociation by minor JWs as they are to baptize them?

by Island Man in

we all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized.

i've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?.

i ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents.

Island Man

We all know that the organization shamelessly pushes for youth baptism, even encouraging parents to withhold driver's licenses from driving-aged teens unless they get baptized. I've been asking myself: since they are wiling to accept minor baptisms, are they also willing to accept letters of disassociation signed by young minors?

I ask this because it seems to me that a signed letter of resignation has a greater "air of legality" to it than baptism, because its a signed document just as most contracts are signed documents. So I suspect that many more JWs will be inclined to say that minors are not mature enough to disassociate, than would say they're not mature enough to be baptized.

But that position would be hypocritical because disassociation is essentially the equal opposite of baptism so if they think a kid is mature enough to be baptized they should equally accept the kid's decision to disassociate without questioning whether or not he/she is mature enough to take such action.

What do you think would happen if an 11 year old baptized JW handed in a letter of disassociation? Will the elders accept it and respect the kid's decision; or will they discard it and get the parents to "rein him/her in"? What's the youngest age you know of a JW disassociating?

35

1975 statements

by A Believer in

from jw org.

“six thousand years of human existence”.

in 1969 the watchtower magazine in czech began publishing a series of articles based on the book life everlasting—in freedom of the sons of god.

Island Man

A Believer, listen and weep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8vhEmlYFU

28

Greetings and would like some advice about a potentially fun idea

by towerwatcher in

jw
friends

hello fellow apostates!

my first post and a long time lurker here.

i would like to thank all of you for the existence of this board as this has been instrumental for me in leaving the place i once knew as "the truth".

Island Man

My advice would be to use the same colors and fonts as the book covers but changing the wording slightly to something funny. For example, instead of "Your Youth getting the best out of it", have the title read: "Your Youth getting the breasts out of it". This would be a funny insinuation about how Watchtower rules suppresses the sexuality of youths.

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

Island Man

"and one breath from his mouth will destroy the wicked."

Jesus Christ! Eww! Use a breath mint, for God's sake!

19

Fight Fire With Fire!

by The Searcher in

wolves use their "loyalty" questions to trap others - "do you believe we're living in the last days/this is god's organization/faithful slave?

" - yet resolutely avoid discussing topics which put their org in a bad light, my "loyalty" question to them would be - "do you accept literature truth over bible truth?

" they will either run or be forced to ask for examples of alleged differences.any other suggestions for "loyalty" questions?.

Island Man

You can also rhetorically ask them what is true loyalty and follow up with an illustration/parable:

"A certain man named Peter had two friends, Mike and John. Whatever the Peter does Mike always supports him and he never ever tells Peter he is wrong even when he is clearly going the wrong way. But John will point out to Peter if he is going wrong because he does not want Peter to get into difficulties with the law. Which of these two men seems to you to be truly loyal to Peter - Mike who always agrees with everything Peter says and does; or John who would bravely offer him corrective advice and criticism when he's going down the wrong path?"

You can use this illustration to say that blindly going along with any and everything the uninspired and imperfect governing body teaches and does, is not true loyalty and that one who is truly loyal will bravely speak out about wrongs and errors so that they are corrected so that the slave does not end up being judged as the evil slave when Jesus returns. But if the slave is silencing all constructive criticism and wants total unconditional loyalty, then how do we know they're aren't already the evil slave?

183

The Great Crowd!

by A Believer in

notice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!

a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .

this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!

Island Man

It is very possible that the great crowd is the same as the 144,000. John at first, only hears the number that are sealed then it is surprisingly revealed to him that the numbers are not literal as he is then given a view of a great crowd of, not literal Jews, but spiritual Jews of all nations and tribes and tongues. That could be the whole point of that passage in Revelation 7 - Revealing that the Israel of God will not be limited to natural Jews but is open to everyone who washes their robes in the blood of the lamb.